Who would win?

[crossface21]

I agree with whatever. I think one thing that we can take from this is that we have some very good wrestling programs in the state, and despite all the teams that have gotten cut in the last 10-15 years(which stinks), Wisconsin still has quite a few opportunities for wrestling at the collegiate level with some of the top teams in their respective Divisions.

[wrestler_73]

I like the question.  It find it very interesting.  I don't think you need to look at it as a negative.  Even if they are in different divisions, we don't have any problem with comparing it in basketball with the different schools in our state.  There is a ton of school pride regardless of division, and I believe that Lacrosse, Augsburg, Wartburg would do very well at the D-1 level if given the opportunity most years. 

I believe UW would win this year by 10-15 points, but UWL would win 4-5 matches.

[MNbadger]

Please get real.  UWL would not win one match.

[bigG]

You've got to be kidding. I don't have LaX winning; but I don't see tham behind by more than 15 if they have their full lineup in tact. Their 141 is ineligible right now because of waiting for his grades to transfer from his former school.

I guess more depends on who is lining up against who out there. I see no way LaX loses at Hwt., though. I think they win at 125 and Moore over Hein ( if Hein is the man, there.)

[Kip Dynamite]

125 UW dec UWL
133 UW tech UWL
141 UW dec UWL
149 UW dec UWL
157 UW dec UWL
165 UW maj UWL
174 UWL dec UW
184 UWL dec UW
197 UW dec UWL (if Brandvold's there)
285 UWL dec UW

UW - 24
UWL - 9

[Kip Dynamite]

And for those of you that don't think a D3 can complete with a D1 program take a look at some of these match scores:

Select      Wt Class      Name      School      Opponent Name      Opponent School      Result      WinType      Score      Tourney Place      In Progress
125    Matt Mcdonough   Iowa    Clayton Rush    Coe    W    TF5    18 - 3 (5:29)
133    Daniel Dennis    Iowa    Bryan Telgenhoff    Coe    W    FALL    2:46
141    Dan Leclere    Iowa    Jordan Westfall    Coe    W    MD    14 - 4
149    Brent Metcalf    Iowa    Mark Carey    Coe    W    FALL    2:06
157    Jake Kerr            Iowa    Dale Handley    Coe    L    DEC    4 - 3
165    Ryan Morningsr    Iowa    Nick LeClere    Coe    W    DEC    6 - 5
174    Jay Borschel    Iowa    Seth Rehn    Coe    W    FALL    1:25
184    Philip Keddy    Iowa    Tyler Burkle    Coe    W    DEC    8 - 6
197    Chad Beatty    Iowa    Rob Kramer    Coe    W    DEC    11 - 5
285    Jordan Johnson    Iowa    Mitch Sander    Coe    W    DEC    6 - 1

[npope]

And for those of you that don't think a D3 can complete with a D1 program take a look at some of these match scores:

Select      Wt Class      Name      School      Opponent Name      Opponent School      Result      WinType      Score      Tourney Place      In Progress
125    Matt Mcdonough   Iowa    Clayton Rush    Coe    W    TF5    18 - 3 (5:29)
133    Daniel Dennis    Iowa    Bryan Telgenhoff    Coe    W    FALL    2:46
141    Dan Leclere    Iowa    Jordan Westfall    Coe    W    MD    14 - 4
149    Brent Metcalf    Iowa    Mark Carey    Coe    W    FALL    2:06
157    Jake Kerr            Iowa    Dale Handley    Coe    L    DEC    4 - 3
165    Ryan Morningsr    Iowa    Nick LeClere    Coe    W    DEC    6 - 5
174    Jay Borschel    Iowa    Seth Rehn    Coe    W    FALL    1:25
184    Philip Keddy    Iowa    Tyler Burkle    Coe    W    DEC    8 - 6
197    Chad Beatty    Iowa    Rob Kramer    Coe    W    DEC    11 - 5
285    Jordan Johnson    Iowa    Mitch Sander    Coe    W    DEC    6 - 1

What are you talking about??

[DocWrestling]

I think he is saying that some of the Coe guys hung with the Iowa wrestlers but none won.

I don't believe there is another sport that has such a small difference between D1 and D3.  The individual sports certainly have D3 guys that become quite good and some D1 guys that do not pan out.  It is up to the individuals talents and efforts.

D1 has much greater team depth and strength.  Depending on the weight many D3 guys could start on D1 teams and many D1 wrestlers would be back-ups on D3 teams.

College wrestling is a big step and it can be difficult to figure out what state champs can be NCAA champs.  Plus many less accomplished HS wrestlers pass guys buy in college.

This is why I would love to see top 3 at NCAA D2 and D3 tournies to be invited to D1 NCAA's.  They used to invite the champs.

[J Feiner]

how long ago was that Doc ?  I would like to see that also.....

[WISCwrestlingfan]

In the '96-'97 season,  UWL won 21-18.  Madison beat UWL the next year 25-9. Since then, Madison has won the the next 3 duals that the schools have had, the last on in the 03'-'04 season. But each year, UWL has been competitive for the the most part(i.e. not getting blown up 35-0 or something like that).

Going back to the '96-'97 season the result were:

'96-'97:  21-18 UWL
'97-'98:  25-9  UW
'98-'99:  24-13  UW
'02-'03:  23-14  UW
'03-'04:  24-12  UW

I was there that night (the '96-'97 season), that was an awesome dual to watch!  The crowd was electric!

[npope]

I think he is saying that some of the Coe guys hung with the Iowa wrestlers but none won.

I don't believe there is another sport that has such a small difference between D1 and D3.  The individual sports certainly have D3 guys that become quite good and some D1 guys that do not pan out.  It is up to the individuals talents and efforts.

D1 has much greater team depth and strength.  Depending on the weight many D3 guys could start on D1 teams and many D1 wrestlers would be back-ups on D3 teams.

College wrestling is a big step and it can be difficult to figure out what state champs can be NCAA champs.  Plus many less accomplished HS wrestlers pass guys buy in college.

This is why I would love to see top 3 at NCAA D2 and D3 tournies to be invited to D1 NCAA's.  They used to invite the champs.

I suspect you might be right, but that dual score was 39-3, so I wouldn't be waving those redults as my flag in an effort to suggest that DI and D3 are comparable.

Back in the 1970s the DIII and DII two champs were invited to the big dance (not exactly sure the year in which that practice ended) and resulted in a number (handful?) of NCAA champs coming from the smaller division schools. As I understand it, the rationale for stoppoing the practice was that the NCAA tourney was becoming a bit too large and difficult to manage so they limited the participants.

[dad 2 5]

I think the couple areas that have changes from even a few years ago are 1) the workout rooms and the (2) support systems at the D1 level. I too think LaX has a great program but not compareable this year to the W. Look at those 90's teams for W and they were not the strongest. This years team could be VERY good by season end. It would be cool to see LaX win D3 and W top 8 in D1.

[whatever]

Nat, 
The practice of letting D2 and D3 wrestlers compete at the D1's ended in 1991 (the incoming freshmen class of 11986 was  'grandfathered ' in for their 5 year careers).

While a handful of D2 and D3 wrestlers were earning AA status on any given year and occassionally winning titles (Carleton Haselrig, for one) the push to end it came from D1 coaches.  The D1 coaches complained ( and rightly so) that D2 and D3 coaches were recruiting D1 athletes to their schools by offering them the opportunity to wrestle immediately as a starter with less demands in the practice room and if they eventually turned out to be D1 material, they could eventually wrestle in the D1 tournament as well.

The D1 coaches rationale was "...if you want to wrestle in the D1 tournament, then you ought to go to a D1 school..."

I think they have a valid point.

[Dale Einerson]

I suspect if they wrestled today it would be more a function of a D1 team nearing the top and a D3 team at the top.  

Perhaps a few years ago it was a UW team with a few holes and a D3 team near the top.

There are no doubt kids that go to D2 and D3 that could have done very well in D1.  D1 is a different level of commitment, should be tougher rooms, are higher expectations and pressure to obtain or maintain scholarship. I think, if we're all honest, and there are exceptions, many D1 kids focus on athletics more than academics.  From choice of major to selection of the University.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.  In fact, when you understand that certain majors, such as business at the UW, you have to maintain I believe a 3.5 to stay in the business major.  That is tough enough without adding the rigors of practice, weight management and travel...and how your body must feel after all of that.  

Many kids that could have gone D1 perhaps didn't like the size of a school, the focus on athletics (lets face it folks, many on this forum and many Badger fans won't be satisfied until Bucky is a top 3, that is alot of pressure), the grade point minimums in a major...perhaps their top choice of University is stacked at a weight class or had a phenomenal couple of years recruiting in a row and scholarship availability is limited...lots of reasons to go D2 or D3.  

Point is, there should, by design, be few D2 and D3 teams that can hang with the top D1.  I suspect La Crosse can do it as well as any D3 right now, but lose 4-5 bouts by 2 points and it is still 12 or 15 to 0.

[bigG]

Good points all around. I would see UW winning handily; but I still think UWL could give them a respectable tussle right now. Much success to both schools. This is a nice debate to be having.